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Ajay: Hi, Judy. How are you doing?

Judy: I’m doing fantastic. Thank you.

Ajay: First thing, welcome to our podcast. It’s The Founder’s podcast and really the goal here to help the founders with solving their problems and one of the ways that we do it is we understand that most of the business owners have very similar problems.

So that’s why we share the problems and we discuss possible solutions so that when our listeners listen to the podcast, they can relate to it if it is even for them and help them. So just by doing one thing at a time, one podcast, hopefully it is helping several businesses. So, I just want to let you know that’s the goal of this.

So, Judy, first thing, thank you very much for coming on as our guest. I always like to start with knowing something about you and the business so that our listeners can relate to it and they can understand who you are and what kind of business you are in so that they would know up front how relevant it is for them. So, will you please share something about you and about the business.

Judy: Yeah, sure. So, I’m Judy Gaman. I’m the CEO of Executive Medicine of Texas. We’re a luxury medical practice located in Dallas-Fort Worth area. We do executive physicals, concierge medicine, age management.

Ajay: Mm-hmm. Okay. So, that is fantastic. So, you are obviously it looks like the business objectives are your clients. Right?

Judy: Sure. So, we are business-to-business and business-to-individual. And part of our patient base comes through corporate agreements, or their C-suite or their upper-level management.

And then we also have individual agreements. We have family concierge, we have couple’s programs, we have individual programs, and we’re about 50 percent corporate business.

Ajay: Okay. Cool. Perfect. And so, one other question that I have for you is how many physicians are there? Do you have the physicians working under your organization or do you have a network of physicians that you work with? How does that work, your business?

Judy: All of our physicians work for us. We have the two founders, Dr. Mark Anderson, Dr. Walter Gaman. We have an employed physician, Dr. Le Santha Naidoo. She’s a DO. The other two are MDs.

We have a physician assistant, and a chiropractor, and a nutritionist. And I know there are some business models out there where they really are just a referral source. But we have board certified physicians that are experts in their field. They’re authors, they’re speakers, not just in board certifications, for example one of our founders also has a masters in public health from U of M.

We really don’t have that referral base where we just send you out and good luck who ever you get. That’s not who we are at all. People fly in to see our practitioners from all over the globe. They see them because of their reputation.

Ajay: That is fantastic. That is great. So, tell me, how are you getting your clients right now? How do you get them?

Judy: Well, there’s a few ways. I would say probably in today’s climate a lot of ours are coming from referral. So, we have a lot of patients that come see us and then they either say, “Oh, you should sign my whole company up,” or they’re referring individuals.

When we’re using social media in different aspects like that, say we’re using LinkedIn, maybe we’re going and connecting with the VP of Benefits, or HR, or the CFO, or the CEO. Sometimes we’re using Facebook and Instagram, those are more used to reach the individual rather than the corporate client. So, I’d say LinkedIn for corporate, Facebook and Instagram for individuals.

Ajay: Okay, okay. Perfect. Okay, good, now I have a good idea. So, obviously you would like to get more clients, right? That’s why we are talking.

Judy: Sure. Yeah. I think some of my questions to you, like for example, we’re using Facebook and Instagram, what other platforms should we be using for the luxury model? We hear a lot of things about, oh, TikTok is becoming very popular. But, how do you know that a particular platform actually meets your demographic? You know, we’re in the luxury model, we know what our age group is, we know what our income of most of our patients are. Is TikTok really the best way to go?

So, you hear these things and you have these biases where you think, “oh, TikTok is for the 16- to 18-year-old. But is that true? I don’t know.

Ajay: Okay, so I will tell you. Let me start with, if you have gone to our website what you will find is, and we really believe in that, you have a three-key foundation of a thriving practice. You need to have a really growing innovation satisfaction, very high. You have to have a stellar online reputation. And then, of course, you have to be found when people are looking for you.

I always say that that is the foundation of your business. If someone is checking about you on any of the platforms, and there are so many platforms now for the healthcare providers, it should be pretty stellar. And I am pretty sure that it must be in your case because it looks like you understand marketing much better than most of the people that I talk to in the healthcare industry.

Most doctors feel like all they have to do is see the patient, do a good job, and that’s the end of it. And unfortunately, that’s not what happens. Because you will always have someone who is not happy and typically, they are the most vocal. People who go to a doctor and they get cured, they are not chomping at the bit to go and talk the doctor up. But someone who is unhappy will always do that.

So, having said that, social media, what you’re doing is very correct. I think social media is the best process for really narrow targeting. Right? So, I would say LinkedIn should be also a fairly key role for you. So, LinkedIn and Facebook, if you ask me, I think that, given your target audience, LinkedIn probably should be the first one because there, and #1, you can reach out, of course, like you’re doing, to the benefit people.

But you can also reach out straight to the CEOs and all that. They can see your ad and they can ask the HR people. And we have seen with some businesses they have done very well by just targeting straight the top guys because someone that you know is going to appeal to the services oriented, toward the CEO, or the C-suite, not to the HR. And, HR are typically charged to take care of everyone. So, they are not essentially thinking about the VP. So, I would say you can use your LinkedIn to really reach out to your target audience.

First thing is, take a look at your base right now, the patient base and the client base. Then you say, “Oh, it looks like this industry,” or, “this size.” So, once you have a good sense of who you are targeting, I always say that as narrow target as much as possible. You can start to expand that target anyway. But by narrow targeting you know what is working, what’s not working. And you want to tweak it. Of course, it’s an ongoing process. I’m sure that you know, marketing is unquestionably not a science.

Judy: We have found that the funnel process has been very helpful for us. We may have a pixel, and then we’re able to then get them to subscribe either to our newsletter or to download one of our books, an e-book, and then we’re able to then put them into a funnel and connect with them on multiple levels through that funnel. Whether it’s continued health articles or what have you with a call to action at the end. We want to be giving more than we’re asking. I think that model has really been useful for us in the growth of the practice.

Ajay: I agree. I think you are doing this very right. That is the way that you want to do it so that, again, you want awareness of your service. Concierge medicine, people understand but I’m not sure everyone has the same understanding of what it is. So that’s the education piece that becomes very important. And what are some of the benefits? You can literally survey your own clients to say what you’re doing, how is it better than the traditional, typical health care where you have a doctor, you make an appointment, you go there. And things will come out. So, again, highlighting those you are doing it right. And, I would say just make sure that you analyze where is the sweet spot for your business. Which, of all the clients, if you start to see a certain kind of clients, certain type of industry, or certain size, or whatever, as you start to see that, that’s when I would say that will help you really to narrow target.

And I’m sure that on LinkedIn you are already reaching out to your target audience asking them to join the network. I would also, if you don’t have it, I would suggest create your own group on LinkedIn for concierge medicine or give it a name so it sounds like the benefit for the C-suite and start inviting people in there. Because that’s where you can also have your e-books and all and your advantage there is that people can’t just come and join. It is by invitation only. And, you start to build your own network. First thing you can always do is you go and invite all your clients to sign up.

And then along those lines, it seems that social media is very interesting in one way where they have all this artificial, machine learning where it will start to narrow target it for you. Once you say that, okay, these are the people, figure out for the people who are similar and so on, that will help you narrow target it. So, I think that even more than anything, LinkedIn should be your go-to social media for this.

And, then I would say second is Facebook. Instagram is very interesting, since you are doing it, we have seen success on Instagram when you are selling a product. But on service I have not seen Instagram do as well. But, of course, Facebook is always there. Facebook is a wonderful platform.

Judy: I do feel like Facebook has changed their algorithms a bit. I think – and you can correct me if I’m wrong, this is what we’ve found – that unless you’re paying for ads, or having someone else kind of manage your Facebook outreach, it’s a lot harder than it used to be to reach out to people. Do you find that?

Ajay: Actually, what is happening, Judy, is all social media platforms are making things more complicated and I don’t understand why. But it’s becoming harder and harder for people to manage it on their own. There was a time when many businesses would go and do things on their own. Either they’ll go on Google and do their own SEO by adding something. And, Google made it so complicated, their whole algorithm, that unless someone is spending 20 hours a week looking into what is going on, you cannot change it. So, I think that is a challenge. They’re always changing algorithm. So, #1 they are always trying to maximize their profit, I guess, you can figure that out.

So, they are trying to change things. Like now, Facebook, there was a time when if you had a lot of followers on Facebook and you posted something all the followers would see that message that you’re posting. Now they don’t. You have to pay them for doing it. So, there are tons of changes that are going on.

Any good agency will be able to look at your account, and do some analysis, and do an audit. And it will tell you these are the things you can do to improve. But again, Facebook and all the social media, any marketing I would say especially in the digital era has become a moving target. What is working today will stop working tomorrow because, like you said, it’s not a one-time change, they’re continuously changing algorithms.

So, it’s almost like you have to learn by once something that was working stops working, it’s like you have to go back and do the research and say, “oh, okay this has changed” and you make adjustments and it’s just an ongoing process. So that is not a surprise to me that they have changed it because they are constantly changing it. So, something that worked for you before, if it’s not working it’s just a matter of, whoever is managing it, should be able to go and figure out what has changed.

Facebook will never tell you what has changed. But, in the broader, main or digital marketing rivers, everyone faces the same problem. And, then there are a lot of forums where they start to discuss and say, “Hey you know, did you also have that?” and people are sharing solutions. So that’s one of the best sources for finding out what happened and what someone else has done which fixed it.

So, it’s a regular thing. We have seen people, literally, I have seen e-commerce sites, the business dropped by 90 percent because Google decided to change the algorithm and all of a sudden someone who was on #1, #2, for many keywords dropped to page six. And you cannot argue with Google. Same thing is true for Facebook, LinkedIn, all these guys are doing this because they’re just trying to maximize the money that they make from you.

My theory for Google has been for quite some time, they will not let you stay on top for a long time because then you would figure that you don’t need to advertise on their platform.

Judy: Right. We found, too, that with Google and the SEOs that we constantly have to feed into a blog on our site because we have to continuously add new content or we just fade down the page, as you’re saying.

Ajay: Exactly.

Judy: Mm-hmm. Yeah. For sure.

Ajay: And even there you need to have the backlinks on it. You see, I have a team working for me I don’t even know all the details. But there is way too much stuff that is going on. So, yeah, I agree with you, I think they have changed. But having said that, Judy, I think that of the platforms that’s the best one that you can think of. So, like I said, LinkedIn, Facebook, Google, these are the giants. There’s no escaping them. So, it’s just a matter of making sure that you find someone who is constantly working. There is no way around it.

But, again, if you have not maximized LinkedIn, I would say that is the first one that I would go and maximize. Again, one of the philosophies, I’ve been a marketing person forever, I used to be in corporate marketing before I started my own business. And I’ve always said that I want to dominate one channel before I worry about something else. So, in the olden days when I had to do TV, and radio, and print, and everything, I would just say, “No. Just one channel at a time.” If I have saturated TV, only then I would think about radio, or print, or anything, or vice versa.

So, that would be my thing. Instead of spreading yourself very thing, unless you have the budget, that’s perfect. But I would say just make sure that you are maximizing one platform before going after the second one.

Judy: Yeah, for sure. That’s great advice.

Ajay: That was a long answer but I hope it answered your question.

Judy: Yeah, that’s definitely great advice.

Ajay: Okay, good.

Judy: I do have another question if we have time.

Ajay: Sure. No, no. We have time.

Judy: What’s the best way to build a referral source without being or sounding desperate. You know, we are always very careful of our ask to our clients. Partially because we are that luxury model and so we’ve kind of found ways when people, especially at the end of this, they’re like, “Oh my gosh. I love this.” And you’re like, “Oh, tell your friends.” When it comes out in our newsletter or things like that, we want to make sure that our ask for those referrals and such aren’t looking desperate or aren’t like, “Oh, now you have to do us a favor.” Can you speak to that at all? Your experience?

Ajay: Sure, sure, sure.

Judy: With the ask?

Ajay: Yeah. So, first thing when you want to ask for something you always want to ask from your strength. So, one of the things that you should definitely, again, remember in the beginning I was talking about having a stellar online reputation, you have to have that. And create some sort of concise report so that someone can see everything in one place, all these logins. Because the last thing you want is someone to refer, especially the higher up that you go the more unlikely they are to refer unless they know that they will not look foolish by referring someone to their friends because again they are also higher ups.

So, first thing I would say make sure that you have a stellar reputation. And once you have that, we always suggest that you do a constant patient satisfaction survey. And you have seen it. You should have something almost like an automated program. And there are a lot of, by the way, these platforms that you can use. Not really expensive.

All you do is figure out dissatisfaction measurement, satisfaction measurement, and all that. And you will find the company. Try to find someone that can help you build your reputation and also does patient satisfaction. Generally speaking, the way they ask for review is first they do a quick survey. They will ask how would you rate your visit with the doctor. And the name of the doctor. It’s coming from the doctor. And generally speaking, you should get 30-40 percent return right there where people say they rate zero to 10, and I will give you a reason for why you should look for zero to 10, not one to five. And then give you the reason why they were happy, not happy. So, first thing is obviously if someone is not happy you get notified quickly then you can address it also.

Your office can reach out and say, “What happened” and explain. But the more important thing is that when you do that, almost like a survey after they’ve seen your doctor, people who are rating you very high, nine, 10, those are the people that – there is a term, it’s called NPS, net promoter score – and on that zero to ten, people who are giving you nine, 10, they are considered promoters.

They are your promoters. They are so happy about that. And once they rated, if you had an automated, very easy for them to share process, life will become very easy. So, in other words, if I rated my visit 10, and then if you had a platform that immediately after that said, “Thank you,” and then just say, “Do you mind sharing your experience with your friends?” Right there you put the message also that all you have to do is just add your friend’s name and email address and it will just go out.

So, you have sort of automated your asking them when they’re delighted about their experience. So, they’re like super happy and that’s when you hit with the referral and make it very easy for them. They don’t have to call or anything. All they have to do is put email address and you create the content that they should be able to change. But on that content make sure that there is a reference to their reputation.

Because here all the research is suggesting that when someone is looking for a healthcare provider and they find out even from different physicians or from their friends, relatives, whoever, about the doctor, the first thing they do is go and they check their reputation, the reviews, before they would even contact them. So, you have just helped them right there by saying. “Here is my report. You can just click and see.”

So now all of a sudden, I am sending out to Oliver saying, “Oliver, I just want to introduce Dr. Judy who is just a wonderful doctor. She is my concierge medicine,” whatever.

Judy: Hey, I’m the CEO, not a physician there.

Ajay: No, no, no. I understand.

Judy: I get what you’re saying, though. And, I was trying to remember so that I could share it with you and your listeners, we have a really neat program – I’ve forgotten the name of the program – but maybe there’s something that your company offers to people. There’s an iPad at checkout and they can rate us and write a review.

And after they do that, if that review was a four or five star, the next question is can this be shared on Google or can this be shared in other places. And then if they click, “Yes,” then it goes to those different platforms and that’s been quite helpful and it also captures those reviews in an online program so that if we ever wanted to use those reviews for marketing purposes and such, they’re there. Especially the ones that write these amazing messages.

Ajay: Perfect, perfect.

Judy: So, getting them while it’s fresh on their mind right at check-out has been helpful.

Ajay: Yes.

Judy: But one thing you said that I think is really important is, we don’t have on that, “Is there anyone you feel could benefit from this service?”

Ajay: Yes.

Judy: I think adding that question would be very beneficial. And it gives them the opportunity to say no, or yes.

Ajay: Yeah, and you can ask them or you just wait. If they have already rated you very high and they are saying it was a wonderful experience, then you can ask them right there. So, it’s not like you have to get their permission to say can you do that. They have already told you that I had a great experience. And now all you are requesting is do you recommend them.

You see, in the old business, because now you are talking about corporate accounts, and one account could be a lot of money. So, you are in a better situation than, for example, doctors asking their patient to refer because then they will get maybe one patient, two patients. The value of every additional client could be huge for your business. So having that automated program is very important. But also, what is equally important is when they get, who ever they are referring, when they get this person’s email there is already a case for you why he should be using it. So, it's not like it’s just my word, that I’m saying that they’re very wonderful. It’s like I have a great experience and here you can see what other people are talking about them.

So, you have something that is consolidated in a simple link that someone can send out and that could start to trigger. But that is what I have always said. Whether it’s a referring physician, in that case you upload the data in some system and contact them directly, or in this case you are a patient or client who is very happy. This asks them automatically and having that system will, again I’m not saying that 100 percent of the people will refer, but you will start to get enough that the new clients will start trickling in through that referral program itself.

So, my thing is that the best way you don’t beg for it is to automate it. And make sure that you are hitting them when they are thrilled with their experience.

Judy: Right. Well, this has all been very helpful. Thank you so much.

Ajay: Wonderful. So, Judy, do you have any other questions or did I answer all your questions.

Judy: Well, I had some other questions but I think in our discussion here you answered them kind of organically. So, thank you.

Ajay: Perfect, perfect, perfect. Thank you very much. And you know I am always excited to see if you use anything and if you find something interesting, so I’m interested in results, do share with us. We’ll love for you to come again and talk about some of the things that you have done and what kind of results you got so that everyone else can benefit. But, yeah, it was really nice talking to you. It looks like you already have a fantastic business. I understand that you are the CEO, not the doctor because very often we are talking to the doctors and they don’t have that good of a business sense.

Judy: Yeah.

Ajay: It was a delight to talk to you. You understand exactly.

Judy: Well, thank you. It’s been a pleasure. Been a pleasure speaking with you as well. And speaking with someone who obviously understands the marketing of a business – it’s its own animal. And if a company is listening to this and they really didn’t understand some of the term we use, or they don’t understand the process, I think maybe going to a company like yours and bringing somebody in that really understands it, is key.

I’ve seen a lot of companies say, “Well we’re just going to hire someone to do our social media,” and they bring somebody in who is learning on the job, or learning on their dime, and they think that it’s cheaper but it’s not.

Ajay: Yeah.

Judy: Nothing beats experience. And if somebody who has experience, like you do, that can come in there and turn things around very quickly, is worth its weight in gold.

Ajay: So, you know, I don’t do this for guests for our advertising, but generally speaking I will tell you that now the digital marketing is much more complex. You have too many dots that need to be connected. So, à la carte services, like okay I will just do social media, or I will do SEO, or I will write blogs for you, candidly speaking, it does not work anymore. Everything needs to be, like I say, all the dots, all the activities is to push the cart in the same direction for it to start moving.

So, yeah, things are getting just like in my olden days, and I am that ancient where I was head of marketing where we had a budget for TV, and radio, and all those things, everything was interconnected. It’s not like we are TV advertising, and on the radio, and we are talking two different things. So, whatever it is you’re trying to push you want to reinforce through every channel. So, yeah, there has to be a coordinated strategy and then all the activities.

So that will be my two cents to people who are looking to do a marketing campaign, and whether you hire an agency or you build your own team, that obviously depends on the company philosophy. But generally speaking, it is very tough to find one person who will know everything that is digital marketing. That’s how complex it has become. And if you find that person then the person is charging $5,000.00 an hour so most people won’t be able to afford them. That’s how complex it has become. So, again Judy, it’s wonderful, good talking to you. I’ll let Oliver take it from here and he will tell you about the next sessional, okay?

Judy: Thank you so much.

Ajay: It was a pleasure talking to you. Thank you.

Judy: Pleasure is all mine. Thank you.

Well, I would just like to promote our Executive Medicine of Texas practice and, really, we see people from all over the globe so you don’t have to live in Texas to be one of our clients. A lot of people fly in. Our half-day exams are second to none. We do over a hundred different lab values. We do cognitive testing, cardio pulmonary, body scans, virtual colonoscopies, all kinds of things.

And they can learn more about that at emtexas.com – that’s E-M- and then Texas spelled out .com. That’s Executive Medicine of Texas.

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