Kathy Mou: Perfect. That sounds amazing. So, I am actually currently working a 9:00 to 5:00 job while starting my own consulting and coaching business. So, I actually work as a patent paralegal, so I understand having a decent amount of income every couple weeks, so it is scary trying to start my own business. But I really wanted to start my own consulting and coaching business because I had a tough time in my health journey, trying to conceive, and I went through infertility issues for two years with my husband, and I didn’t know why.

But through my infertility journey, I found out that I was diagnosed with endometriosis, finally. And if you don’t know what endometriosis is, it is a disease that causes like the uterine lining in your wall to go all in your whole entire body. So, actually I have had it ever since I was 13. I had super painful periods, etcetera, from endometriosis. But it’s just so hard to diagnose.

And so I had chocolate cysts, which is literally caused by endometriosis, so that was when I finally got diagnosed. And then, so through my whole health journey, that’s how I kind of got into getting my certification in health and life coaching because I felt so lonely and sad and hopeless. And then I actually changed a lot of my life, like just everything. Like holistically, like my mental health, my physical health, just everything I had to like relearn to kind of health my body from the inside out.

And then, yes, and then actually had my daughter naturally after having infertility for two years. So, yes, it’s been a long journey.

So, through my health journey, I just want to help others. And so right now, my coaching and consulting business is mainly helping women who are struggling with infertility and endometriosis and mental health because that’s what I went through. And so I feel like I can help other people who are struggling, just like me.

Ajay Prasad: Okay. So, that is number one, you are very brave. You went through that, and the fact that it’s always – you know, someone who can overcome that cannot challenge you in that result. And then secondly, I really admire you for wanting to step up and help other people because you already know what kind of challenge, how hard it is to go through this.

So, this is – so, tell me one thing. Did you take any kind of training about how do you teach other people? Like do you have a curriculum? So, in other words, if someone comes to you and say, “Yes, I have this problem,” how do you – what’s the process that you use? Yes, go ahead.

Kathy Mou: Yes. So, I actually do one-on-one coaching, and I have like a 12-week course that I teach one on one with each of these people, and I teach them the tools that I’ve had to use myself. So, these are all holistic approaches, like changing your diet and adding in exercise, It’s not like I prescribe any medication, etcetera. I’m just mostly taking the holistic approach, as in like decompressing, looking at your cortisol levels, trying to help you maintain or balance your hormones through like whatever your lifestyle is, right?

And so I teach these women or people one on one, and then we kind of dive deeper into like what is going on actually in their lives. You know, health problems usually is a whole body type of thing, and so to heal your body, it’s gonna take everything. So, I look at like what they’re eating, what are they – like are they doing any movement? How’s their stress levels? So, we kinda tap into that.

Ajay Prasad: So, then do you – so, all these things, do you have a consulting with a doctor, or do they have to go and take any medical test, or how do you monitor their health issues? The specific where they are, the status of any health issues that they have?

Kathy Mou: So, with their health issues, these people should already obviously consult with their own doctors, and I’m not here to give medical advice, but usually these women will do holistic approaches to add on with whatever they’re doing with their medical doctors and their endometriosis specialist. Because I had to do the same. I still had my own endometriosis specialist, but I added these tools and holistic approaches to make me stronger and make my body healthier, so when I did have a child, I was able to carry my child naturally.

You know, it’s just these tools are to help, not to say eliminate or all that, yes. So, I still work with medical doctors as well.

Ajay Prasad: Perfect.

Kathy Mou: So, I had an endo specialist, then I had an IVF doctor, and I also had my own OBGYN, and then my own general doctor. So, it’s just so many people on my team.

Ajay Prasad: Okay. So, that is how you suggest about your – you know, if someone who comes to you for help?

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: So, you just share with them exactly what you do. Okay, that’s perfect. And how are you currently getting your clients? Like do you have a website? I mean, how do people know about you currently?

Kathy Mou: Yes, so currently I do have a website, so you could check me out at KathyMou.com, and you can apply there, and you can look me up. I have that whole website. And then right now, I’m mostly on Instagram and Facebook, or you can find me on TikTok as well, but mostly I like to post my content and talk about and find other people with endometriosis through Instagram.

Ajay Prasad: Okay, through Instagram. Interesting. So, you don’t do anything on YouTube right now?

Kathy Mou: No. Currently I don’t use YouTube. So, that was one of the questions I think I was gonna ask you.

Ajay Prasad: Good, good, good, good. So, I just wanted to make sure what’s happening. And how many people have you helped to this point?

Kathy Mou: Currently I’ve had like a handful of people because I’m still in the beginning stages of trying to really fine-tune my course. So, I’m actually gonna do a beta testing course in the next couple of weeks with four women, and I’m excited to try that. So, yes, it’s just a beta testing to just fine tune my one-on-one coaching program, and I’m gonna have them do it for free, and then see what they say and just get real feedback from them.

Ajay Prasad: And one last question and then you can – I will let you ask me questions. One last question. So, you are – when you are saying one on one, it could be on Zoom. So, in other words, people can be anywhere. They don’t need to be in the local area, am I correct?

Kathy Mou: Oh, yes. So, it can be anywhere in the world, and yes, we do it – my course is over Zoom. So, we’ll do one-on-one coaching where I talk to them through Zoom for at least 30 to 45 minutes once a week.

Ajay Prasad: Okay. Now I get it, 100 percent. So, I have a very good idea of what you are trying to do and what you are doing, so I will let you ask me questions that you may have.

Kathy Mou: Yes. So, one of my questions, we kind of talked about, you just said YouTube. So, what place or what best, I guess, through TikTok, YouTube, etcetera, like what are one of the best places to actually promote and get clients on?

Ajay Prasad: Yes. So, first thing I will tell you that I’m a big believer in making sure that you have maximized one channel before you jump into another. So, in other words, if you are on Instagram, you want to make sure that you have saturated Instagram before you dilute on something else. I don’t know, this is just my very personal belief based on my experience of being in marketing all my life, and including for big corporate corporations, is like you want to make sure that you don’t – sprinkling a little bit here, a little bit there off your marketing effort, generally speaking is not optimal thing. So, I will start with that, right?

So, you have – and then what is the best channel? And I’ll be very candid, I am still not aware of the TikTok. I know that TikTok works when you are selling products because I am – but I am not still sure about if the TikTok works for a very specific – you know, it’s a very niche-y issue, right? Of course someone who has the problem that you are addressing, you know, it’s just a massive problem for them.

But then if you look at the broader population, if you have like one out of whatever, like if you think about – I don’t know what is the number, probably you have a better idea. But it’s not a huge number. So, as a result, when something like this goes out through any channel, and again, TikTok, I don’t know if they can differentiate it or they give you the chance to create your own group, so that’s what I’m not aware of TikTok.

But I will tell you that you want – because this is a niche, so you have to find that niche, and I know that, for example, both your Facebook or Instagram, they are the same anyway. Or if you are talking about YouTube, it helps you really channel – it helps you focus very closely.

So, if you already have an Instagram presence, if you are seeing any results from there, I would say you want to just make sure that you are getting most out of that before you jump into anything else. YouTube probably would be a – you can check, by the way. The advantage of these platforms is on YouTube, is owned by Google. You can literally go and check how many, what kind of searches are happening, right, for specific issues that you are addressing on YouTube.

And of course, this is like a very serious problem for people who have it, so the chances of people going on the different channels and trying to learn and understand is very high. But again, having said that, for me, Instagram and YouTube is a no brainer for what you are doing. TikTok, the reason I’m saying is I don’t know enough about TikTok, so I just want to be very up front. For selling products, the consumer product, I know that TikTok is becoming like a very good, dominant channel. But when it comes to services, I am not aware of it at this point.

Kathy Mou: Okay. Great. Thank you for that insight. That is really helpful because I feel like I do have to do everything, and if I don’t do everything, I’m gonna miss out.

Ajay Prasad: Yes. The FOMO, what you call the fear of missing out –

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: That is always, I always say that’s the worst strategy, if you’re looking for a business strategy. So, I wouldn’t worry about it. All you want to do is where you are focused and what kind of return you are getting, right, for every marketing. So, you take one step at a time. Just if you are investing one hour – I’m just throwing out a number – one hour or $100 on Instagram, you want to make sure that if you get to a point where one hour gets you X number of clients or $100, if you are investing, gets you X number of clients.

And once you have that, then you can take a step back and say, “Will this $200 means double?” Right? Because there is – in the business school, we used to learn there’s a curve. So, there is always say, at some point your returns start to – the point of diminishing return.

So, you want to know that how many hours, if you are spending the time and dollars, if you are advertising there, what’s the maximum? And you know that you are getting – because you can squeeze only so much out of one channel, and only then try to go on another. That is my thing. If you are starting in the very beginning going all over, it doesn’t make sense. You want to just take a step back.

And are you doing all the marketing yourself, or are you using someone else to do that for you?

Kathy Mou: Yes, see, that was one of my other questions. So, right now I’m doing everything myself, and so my other question was is it really necessary to hire like a marketing agency or a PR firm to help promote my business?

Ajay Prasad: So, at your stage of business, getting, hiring – you know, most of the marketing, the good I would say marketing firms would not accept even the project. And even if they accepted, it will be very expensive. So, I don’t think it makes sense.

But having said that, if you have chosen one area, so rather than go and become an expert on Instagram, for example, on the strategy and what works or doesn’t work, you may be better off finding someone who just does – there are a lot of freelancers who are expert on, for example, Instagram marketing or YouTube marketing and stuff like that. And it makes sense, may make a lot of sense to get someone – because you know, you can only do so much, right?

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: So, if you already have your work, you are already now doing this side gig, which you hope that will become your full-time gig.

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: And then on top of it, you have to become expert on Instagram marketing, that doesn’t make sense to me. So, I wouldn’t go for a marketing agency or anything at this point where you are, you know, unless you have like a big budget that you have, and you say I’m launching – I’m assuming you’re having done the exact same thing that you are doing also at some point of my life. I know that when you start an entrepreneur, it’s not like you have a VC has given millions of dollars that you can go and go.

So, we want to use all your money very carefully, right? And so yes, you need help, and so it is you definitely should find an expert. But having said that, I don’t think that you need a big agency to help you. I think if you just Google – and this particular thing, I would not – my preference would be that you want to work with someone local that you have met, right, and you have some level of confidence. Because agencies are very good. They have a process in place where you could be anywhere in the world, basically, and still – and you don’t even need to meet them, and things will work because they know they have a system, they have a process.

Independent consultants generally speaking don’t have that. So, you want to meet, you want to feel comfortable with this person and look at some of the work that they have done, and then only use it.

But yes, I would say the answer is yes, you want some help from outside, and then the answer for that is not to go and find this big agency because you are paying for a lot of their overhead and all. You know, I run an agency, so I can tell you, the fact of the matter is that when someone comes to us and pays us a fee, more than half of it just goes into the overhead and infrastructure and everything, right? So, you don’t need to pay for that. And every agency will have the same problem. So, you are best to find someone who has no infrastructure costs, really. Someone who is working from home, and there are a lot of people like that, and very good ones.

Kathy Mou: Okay. So, just – yes, I don’t need to hire a big marketing agency or whatnot, just a single person who’s good at –

Ajay Prasad: Yes.

Kathy Mou: Like just marketing on Instagram.

Ajay Prasad: Exactly, or YouTube, Face – I mean, generally speaking, you will find these people have done it on most of the channels. Because obviously if you are done now, someone could be just, I am just Instagram or just Facebook, which is not bad. If someone says the only thing I do is Instagram, then the chances are that this person knows the ins and outs of Instagram, so there is nothing wrong.

But yes, if someone says, “Yes, I do Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube and TikTok,” that’s probably okay too. You can do that. You can learn because the fundamentals are the same. You just have to learn the techniques of different platforms.

Kathy Mou: Gotcha. Okay, cool, that’s super helpful. I will look into that. And then another question kind of going off of that, do you think – sorry – do you think that paying for ads is a necessity? Like paying for ads on like Instagram, YouTube, etcetera? Super important in helping to get more clients?Ajay: Yes, so at this stage of your business, I would say definitely. So, here’s the advantages of ads, if done right, and that’s where you want a consultant, right, to help you so that you don’t end up wasting money trying to learn.

So, and the beauty of ad – and first thing is when you’re advertising on social media, it doesn’t cost – it’s not like you need a $10,000 budget, right? So, you can start with even $200 and you’ll get a good sense for what – whether it works or not. So, you know, $500 budget will probably give you the story.

And for me, ad is all about return on investment. So, of course, initially there is some trial and error, and you have to do. So, initially it doesn’t matter. But very quickly, when you are advertising, you should get to a point where you know that, okay, when I am putting this much dollar, I get this kind of return, right?

So, once we hit that threshold, where for example you know that it looks like every $25 that I spend, I end up getting one inquiry, and out of five inquiries I get one customer, so my cost is $125 to get a customer. So, once you get to that level, then it is all decision, right? So, now you know whether that number would work or not. For many services, that could be – if I can get a customer, for example, for my business for $125, I’ll take it in a heartbeat and I will not only that, I will probably take it for ten times more of that.

But then for someone who is selling a $10 product where they have a $4 margin, it doesn’t make sense. Like if they’ll say if it takes $100 to sell one.

So, it becomes – so, you would know. That’s what you want to know. You need to invest some money in advertising, but you – and your goal is to get to a point where you know that, okay, I have to invest this much money to get to one customer, right? And then you can make a judgment call and say does it make sense or not. Because I don’t, for example, and I don’t want you to share something like this on the podcast, but I mean, you know how much you charge, right? You know what’s the value of each person who signs up right now.

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: And then you know the value of your time. So, figure out all that and if you are spending ten hours with someone, and you end up getting $100 in net profit, net charge from the customer, then it’s not worth it, right? Even if you are charging $1,000, but thinking that, okay, I will charge $100 an hour, but if the acquisition cost of getting one customer is $900, then essentially you’re working for $10 an hour, right?

So, that is some, that is a very simple calculation, but you want to do that. You want to understand – so, the reason you want to advertise is end of the day, you should know what’s the cost of acquiring a customer, right? So, in techy terms, business term, you will hear about customer acquisition cost. But once you know that, then it will start to help you with everything else, right? You’ll see does it make sense to acquire at that cost, at the fee that I am charging? Can I increase my fee? And then that’s when the business judgment starts to come in.

Kathy Mou: Okay. That’s super helpful, thank you.

Ajay: Yes, and tell me if I am confusing. Because the main thing for me, it’s natural because I have been doing this for 100 years, so I’m very aware that I may be saying things that may not be making sense. So, always, if there is anything that you are not 100 percent clear on, go ahead and ask me.

Kathy Mou: Oh, no, it does make sense. Yes, you have to see how much you spend and then how much you make at the end from how many clients or – yes, at the end you have to weigh out the whole costs and benefits of it.

Ajay Prasad: Yes. And in the beginning, I will tell you that you will need to make some investment because it takes a little bit of investment and analysis to come up with – what will happen is your consultant will run probably – he runs or she runs six different projects and campaigns, and four of them fail, but two of them work. So, you have already paid for those four, whatever that cost is, so that’s what I’m saying. So, in the beginning it requires a little bit of investment, but very soon you should get to a point where you know that, okay, I need to put this much money on Instagram, for example, to get one customer. I need to put this much on YouTube to get one customer.

Once you get to that level, now you are in control. You almost know that when to – essentially you have their tap now. You can open as much as you want, right? How many customers you want. You’ll just have to make that level of investment.

Kathy Mou: Yes. So, another question I have is since I am just like a new beginning in my business, so what is like one of the first main tips that you would give as a new entrepreneur as in to like what I should be focusing my time? Because I feel like I’m wasting most of my time trying to promote myself on Instagram and on these platforms, right, because you have to get your name out there, and you’re trying to let people understand what you’re doing and trying to trust you.

So, I guess right now, my time management is kind of all over the place because I don’t really know where to focus my time on.

Ajay Prasad: For every business own – and I do, as you could tell, you know, I’m talking to you, and I also do some mentoring to some local startups.

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: So, my first thing about any new business that comes in, you want to make sure that your service, your product is real. In other words, there’s a need for that. It’s pretty obvious that your product., there is a need for it, right? So, that is a good thing.

And then the second thing is, well, so now when you are providing it, how do you build the credibility, right? And promoting yourself is credibility, but it depends on how you are promoting it. If you are writing articles about the issues, or you are writing your own story, and now people are reading that, that is promoting also, but now you are not promoting yourself personally, but you are promoting your solutions, right?

And to me, that’s where a lot of entrepreneurs get confused. I have always – you know, I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people start their business, and first thing they’ll do is go and spend $5,000 on getting some sort of glossy logo which doesn’t even make sense. And all these fancy stuff, like business card and everything. And they don’t even know what they want to be known for.

So, I always tell them, so my first thing is that you already have a real solution. Good. Second thing is you want to take a step back and say what do you want to be known for, right? So, before you even start promoting yourself, just figure out what you want to be known for and why, right? Because it’s one thing, I mean, you know, hopefully you are not in this – you are not starting this new business just to become famous or something, right?

Ajay Prasad: No, no.

Ajay Prasad: So, that’s what I’m saying. So, you want to know why. What do you want to be known for and why? And once you have answered that, that’s when you start to build. So, everything that you post, every article that you write, every webinar that I would suggest, as you have the base, you start to do that. Even if in the beginning you make it just one, doesn’t matter. Even if you don’t get anyone, just do the webinar. It’s just a practice run. If it’s been recorded, you can put it on your website and all, right?

But you just – everything has to be very intentional, and that intention is going to be around what do you want to be known for and why. And as you have that, that’s when you – it’s really important at this stage to be very focused about – you have only limited energy, right? All of us have.

Kathy Mou: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: And I am – by the way, it’s not like – I wish that I did what I am telling you right now. So, this is at least one of my reasons for doing this podcast. So, at least if I can help even a few people not repeat the mistakes that I made when I started.

And this is one of the things that I did, is I started with way too many stuff. It’s like totally confused. So, at some point, when I am like what do I want to be known for, and even I was like, wow, I don’t even know that. Because I started with this is my service, right? Just like you have a service. And like whatever comes, and that’s not the way to do that. You want to know, okay, this is the service, people need it, and now you figure out, all right, what are your core competencies. You already shared with me why you are the right person. And then you figure out what do you want to be known for and start to build around it.

But I would say that you definitely, if you are going to be a consultant on that, you want to be positioned as an expert on the thing that you’re doing, right? Which means, like I said, writing some blogs, doing some webinars sort of thing, will really help you in promoting those. Because that’s how you will position yourself as an expert.

And do join some other experts because you can see, I’m sure, that on all the platforms, there would be other people who could be experts or in your area. So, I strongly suggest that you join those groups because that way you are part of that team, you know what is happening and what are the latest and all that.

Kathy Mou: Okay, awesome. That was so powerful. Like thank you so much. That really, really helped me and resonated with me like because obviously I know why I want to do what I’m doing, right? Because I really want to help other people and other women. But I guess that first piece of like what do you want to be known for.

Ajay Prasad: Yes, and by the way, write it down. Just trust me, there is so much power. Write it down and put it in front of your desk about these things that we talked about, right? Why you are in this business, what do you want to be known for, and just coming and looking at it, and again, these things can be changed, right? That’s the beauty, is like when after one week you look at it, it’s like, no, that’s silly. I don’t want to be known. And it’s perfectly okay to change.

But having something that you glance at five times by force because it’s sitting in front of you, it helps. So, I strongly suggest that you just put it on a paper, all the things that we talked about, why, who are. And what I’m saying, when I say what do you want to be known for, that’s a brand position, right? That’s how you are positioning yourself. And once you have that, everything else will automatically fall in place, just you’ll see that.

Kathy Mou: Wow. Oh my gosh, this is perfect because yesterday I was having a tough time with my business, and like feeling pretty burnt out, and just kind of feeling lost because I thought I was very focused onto what I was trying to do, but then people keep telling me things otherwise and kind of trying to make me feel backtracked and not confirming what I was – they just didn’t make me feel like I was doing the right thing.

But just talking to you right now and you just saying that helped me reconfirm like my belief in the beginning is true.

Ajay Prasad: Perfect.

Kathy Mou: And I should be doing that.

Ajay Prasad: I am so happy to hear that, and like I said, I started this podcast hoping that if I can get a few of the entrepreneurs, prevent them from making the mistakes that I made, this is all worth it. So, my best wishes to your big success, and you know, you are doing something that is very needed, right, and there’s almost like a noble cause around it, which is what I like.

Kathy Mou: Thank you so much.

Ajay Prasad: Yes, just keep it up and let us know, keep us posted, and anytime by the way you have any questions, always feel free to call. I may not be available at that time, but I will always call back. And so if you ever have any specific questions, you can always call me. You have the office number. And then let’s just end this if you don’t – do you have any other questions?

Kathy Mou: Yes. So, sorry, I just a little bit more.

Ajay Prasad: Sure, sure.

Kathy Mou: Because you kind of mentioned about finding webinars and article pieces to write. Like so, I would just do these webinars and write these articles and just put it on my website, like I wouldn’t have to put it anywhere else or try to promote it, or just –

Ajay Prasad: So, you want to promote it, but you want to promote it in a very, I would say, noncommercial way. I’m just trying to – so, which is called organic. So, yes, of course, once you put it on your post, you want to add it on your social media, right? Check my article about this. If you are part of some other groups, you can always – you should always – you know, groups that in the same area, share with them. Hopefully some other people will share with other people.

So, that’s the good thing about this, is that most people who have very specific problems tend to know other people with specific problems, right? So, someone who has not had to deal with the problems that you dealt, right, the chances are that they don’t know anyone like that. But I am pretty sure that you know a bunch of other people that went through the whole problem. It’s just very human nature. You kind of cluster around people with the same issues, same lifestyle, whatever.

So, I would just say encourage people to share your blogs, encourage on the social media and everything. So, it’s not like you’ll just write article and put it on your website. You want to make sure that it is optimized, that Google crawls. There are some tricks, like there’s a Google query where if someone says, “Where’s the best process for doing it?” And if you have done things right, it will show up on Google.

So, again, you may even get some clients, but the more important thing is that it again positions you as an expert, right?

Ajay Prasad: Yes.

Ajay Prasad: So, yes, you promote it through organic, both on social media and on I would say Google, but definitely you want – that’s how you will come across as an expert. So, you do need a bunch of articles, and really well thought out see this – so, quantity is not as important here as quality. You want to be regular, so whether you are doing it once a month, once a week, once every two weeks, or whatever, but be regular. At the same time, focus on the quality, not the quantity.

Kathy Mou: Oh my gosh, I love that too because I just felt like I’m – yes, I’ve been just focusing on the quantity, like just trying to do all these things every day. But then like the quality could, I could definitely put in more quality work and just do less of the stuff.

Ajay Prasad: Yes. I would suggest, strongly suggest that.

Kathy Mou: Okay. I love that. Oh, you have such amazing insight. This was so helpful. Yes.

Ajay Prasad: Okay, good.

Kathy Mou: Yay.

Ajay Prasad: Any other questions?

Kathy Mou: I have so many questions, but I will ask you separately when it comes up. But I know I will definitely have them.

Ajay Prasad: Okay, perfect. So, but now, if you want, why don’t you just do a little bit of your advertising? Tell people where they can find you. Please don’t give the phone number, but the website and any social media, anything where people can reach out to you and go and find about you.

Kathy Mou: Yes. So, I have my own website. It’s literally KathyMou.com. My name, K-A-T-H-Y-M-O-U dot com. That’s where you can learn more about me, what I do, you can actually book a free discovery call for 30 minutes to discuss if we would be a good fit for each other to work together. And then I’m on Instagram, that’s my main social media platform that I use right now, so Kathy.Mou is my Instagram handle. Same thing as Facebook. Kathy.Mou. You can find me there. And TikTok, I’m @kathymou.

Speaker: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Founder's Corner Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and follow us on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify, and SoundCloud. If you are interested in being a guest, be sure to visit our main page at www.gmrwebteam.com/thefounderscorner.